Forums: Requests:

 Amount of plays/likes/comments on front page for track feed

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Sunday 27th of January 2013, 17:58 - 1
would be nice to have a quick display for this sort of thing on the list so i know how tracks are doing without having to click on every single one... would make the otherwise big lumpy feed of new tracks a bit more personable i think (it's certainly spur its usage quite a ways, in my book at least)

alternate request: also have it on radio shuffle?
Edited: 27/01/13 - 18:00
Sunday 27th of January 2013, 18:34 - 2
This was purposely not put in so that people just wouldn't automatically go to the highest rated song on the front page.
Makes everyone's song have an equal chance :)
Sunday 27th of January 2013, 19:01 - 3
seems to have the opposite effect for me... i always intentionally go on the ones without favourites and comments

it's a nice intent but as a result it's hard to really know why you're really clicking anything and the new feed just kinda looks like a big indistinguishable list of songs which leads even less people to click on them~

not to mention this way it's nearly impossible for any new artists to gain any proper traction since any accumulation of random chance clickings is going to get ignored on the front page and you pretty much have to just happen on a new song by chance to even know of a new potential good artist's existence (unless it gets to top 3?)
Edited: 27/01/13 - 19:13
Monday 28th of January 2013, 04:19 - 4
in fact i think this is a pretty big explanation for why the top 3 is so... unchanging (sorry guys! it is)

they're the only songs on the entire site that you have even the vaguest idea of quality before you click them; so why wouldn't you click them?
Monday 28th of January 2013, 04:38 - 5
kfaraday wrote:
in fact i think this is a pretty big explanation for why the top 3 is so... unchanging (sorry guys! it is)


Hi there! So, while I don't work directly on the site, I run the twitter spotlight (which usually spotlights the top 3 songs, then 2-3 or so of my personal favorite songs of the last week).

What you're saying is generally not true. See, due to the way 2xAA designed the system, it does a very good job of keeping the top 3 songs from appearing on the top 3 list for more than two weeks consecutively, and it's even harder to stay in the same spot.

See, the top 3 are posted on how many favorites were received that week per song. The song with the most amount of favorites in that one week time frame is listed #1. The song with the second highest amount of favorites in that time is listed #2. And the same is done for #3.

Because it takes that many favorites (usually a minimum of 5 to boost it to top spot), and since each user can only favorite a song once, it makes it hard to receive a surplus of favorites more than two weeks in a row (1 week to bring it into the top 3, one week while in the top 3) to keep it there.

In fact, considering that I have posted and listened to every almost every Top 3 since the change in site design (and a good few of them before that), I can assure you that it actually does change quite a bit. In fact, the first time anybody ever got two #1 spots in a row was at the beginning of last December. A good long while after the top 3 system was implemented.

Look, while I believe that you would probably go through and find the songs that have the least amount of favorites and give those artists a try, the problem still remains that not everyone is you, and many people will only listen to the most favorited songs of weeks gone by.

Anyway, yeah, that's kinda the way I see it.
Gameboys in a blender
Monday 28th of January 2013, 04:53 - 6
hello! can't help but think you've sorta missed my point... the songs themselves might change but the actual artists up there seem (to me at least) extremely unvaried

if there's any reason for that... while as nice and all making a user culture that goes through tracks equally is, you've sort of undermined it with the medals system; as a result everyone's clamouring to the one thing they CAN predict as a sign of track quality, which are the users involved. as a result if you see THEIR tracks popping up in the new feed you will listen to their tracks first, and because no-one else in the feed has ever been on top 3 (and because there's no sign of how popular their tracks are outside of this) there's effectively a really massive and uncompetitive rift between these two groups of users (one with clear demarcator of quality, one without) with virtually no chance of breaking through unless one of them by severe force of show manages (against the system!) break into the top 3
Edited: 28/01/13 - 04:55
Monday 28th of January 2013, 06:43 - 7
I must say that I do agree with kfaraday! It would make it a "more" fair fight imo as well. It's almost always the same artists that chart, no arguing there. I think we could remedy this somewhat with kfaraday's idea. That's my 2 cents. Cheers
HARTS FOUR ALL
Monday 28th of January 2013, 10:01 - 8
kfaraday wrote:
seems to have the opposite effect for me... i always intentionally go on the ones without favourites and comments
In my experience (being a member of 8bc for 4 years), having stats shown on tracks always makes people avoid the tracks with lower play counts. I remember, nearing the end of 8bc, people ONLY listened to the tracks which had a high play count.

kfaraday wrote:
it's a nice intent but as a result it's hard to really know why you're really clicking anything and the new feed just kinda looks like a big indistinguishable list of songs which leads even less people to click on them~
You must see though, that there really is no room for statistics on the front page, plus it looks really messy to have text everywhere. Personally, I really hate having numbers everywhere. They should only need to be shown when needed.
I even have a plugin for Facebook which turns off all numbers of likes, comments, shares and even dates.

kfaraday wrote:
not to mention this way it's nearly impossible for any new artists to gain any proper traction since any accumulation of random chance clickings is going to get ignored on the front page and you pretty much have to just happen on a new song by chance to even know of a new potential good artist's existence (unless it gets to top 3?)
That's not entirely true, I've seen a few not so well known artists surface and get into the top three. But like in all music charts, people listen to what's popular until they've had enough.
I could write a system which forces artists not be in the charts for multiple weeks, but how is that a fair game? If you accumulate the likes because it's actually good, then that's awesome.

But say if I changed the charts to only display an artist once over two weeks, even if their track has gained more likes than any other track, but then you write a killer tune and it technically should be up on the charts for two weeks? That's not fair. People would complain to me for changing the system.

Basically, you're gonna get the artists who chart again and again, but that's only three tracks at the top of the page. People know that there's a whole lot more music on the site so they will browse.

Your play count may not go up as often as you'd like if you song isn't played fully by the way. If only up to 3/4 is played, no play will be counted - another fair system in my opinion.

tl;dr - if you want to browse through stats, Chipmusic.org is available.
Chiptune Justice League™ (ง'̀-'́)ง
Monday 28th of January 2013, 15:10 - 9
2xAA wrote:
In my experience (being a member of 8bc for 4 years), having stats shown on tracks always makes people avoid the tracks with lower play counts. I remember, nearing the end of 8bc, people ONLY listened to the tracks which had a high play count.


That's not entirely true. When I posted my first fm-tune on 8bc in August 2011, I got about 16 likes after a few days, which was more than acceptable for me being totally unknown under the alias I used and someone who didn't release any material before under that name. I didn't make the charts and there were a lot of people who got a lot more likes at that time, but I didn't expect that much and I was totally okay with what I achieved. From my experience the statement that people only listened to tracks with a high play or like count is not true. Of course there were some flaws, but I think the 8bc system was as perfect and fair as it could get.

That was something I really loved about 8bc, the 'quick display' of things might be one reason for that: As long as there was some kind of quality to the music, even a completely unknown user could generate a huge amount of likes and make a name for himself with a single upload. I think most people know just how hard it is to do that on a non-specialized site like soundcloud.

To sum it up, I second what kfaraday said and I think a lot of other users would do as well. You can clearly say that it won't happen, but if you're open to the opinions of the users, why don't we just make a vote or something?
Edited: 29/01/13 - 19:36
Monday 28th of January 2013, 15:21 - 10
well i'm not asking for you to write code that intentionally keeps artists out of the top 3?? but it is sort of implicitly what you're doing already by having three tracks that are instantly knowable as "good" and then having absolutely no indicator for any other artist not in that top 3. it'd at the very least level a playing field slightly, although there are other options as well

the problem of people not exploring the new tracks might be easier solved (even potentially without adding stats on the homepage) by i think a number of ways making it easier to listen to tracks without so much of a start-up investment... a "newb radio" (rather similar to the one you have already, only sorted by recency) would go a long way, accessible by either a "(Radio)" link that pops up next to the "Audio" above the New Feed or by clicking on the headphones. another one would be would be to have "Listen" links on the front page, accessible in a similarly discreet fashion (clicking the avatar of the user, or in a "Play" button that materialises on highlight, either on the right or in place of the avatar. or play in place of avatar, heart/download on the right if so desired) providing a quick way to listen to lots of music really fast without having to "specialise" which song you're on

i think the main issue i see is that you click on a link to listen to a song and then there's no obvious links to listen to any more, you have to either back out onto the home page (by clicking the logo up top) or click "audio" which is perhaps just as esoteric and still leaves you a click away from other music; to this end i'd recommend a "next song"/"previous song" option somewhere based on chronological upload on each song page (you could use the footer perhaps...?), each previous and next option with the name of artist/song and a small avatar to continually entice the user into listening.

i think each thing here would keep the same exploratory and addictive aspect of the radio (which is a good idea!) while also making it slightly more consistent timewise, and also consistent to the rest of the site; otherwise it's very easy to listen to songs starting from a random point and it's very easy to listen to the top songs but in terms of listening to new entries the chance of getting plays is always going to be rather more scattered and uneven by comparison
Monday 28th of January 2013, 19:25 - 11
kfaraday wrote:

hello! can't help but think you've sorta missed my point... the songs themselves might change but the actual artists up there seem (to me at least) extremely unvaried


Ah, ok. I gotcha. Though, it kind of is like Sam said, that is what happens on real radio charts a lot as evidenced by the fact that Lady Gaga has been in the Top 10 more than 6 times, and Ra Ra Riot I don't think has ever broken into the Hot 100. Now, I'm not saying that MicroCollective should aspire to be that, I'm just saying that it is a common effect with charting.

kfaraday wrote:

the problem of people not exploring the new tracks might be easier solved (even potentially without adding stats on the homepage) by i think a number of ways making it easier to listen to tracks without so much of a start-up investment... a "newb radio" (rather similar to the one you have already, only sorted by recency)


Not quite what you described, but you gave me an idea. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, but an option to sort audio tracks by songs that have 3 or fewer favorites/plays. Something like that might make it easier to show artists and songs that don't get enough exposure, but while stopping someone from exploiting the system to listen only to the tracks that have the most likes/plays.
Gameboys in a blender
Tuesday 29th of January 2013, 12:02 - 12
otakumode wrote:
2xAA wrote:
In my experience (being a member of 8bc for 4 years), having stats shown on tracks always makes people avoid the tracks with lower play counts. I remember, nearing the end of 8bc, people ONLY listened to the tracks which had a high play count.


That's not entirely true. When I posted my first tune on 8bc in August 2011, I got about 16 likes after a few days
Quite a lucky break then! I remember the huge complaints about the stats on the front page detracting from users who weren't known.

otakumode wrote:
To sum it up, I second what kfaraday said and I think a lot of other users would do as well. You can clearly say that it won't happen, but if you're open to the opinions of the users, why don't we just make a vote or something?
I'm open to the opinions, but I think I have a plan (read on).

kfaraday wrote:
well i'm not asking for you to write code that intentionally keeps artists out of the top 3?? but it is sort of implicitly what you're doing already by having three tracks that are instantly knowable as "good" and then having absolutely no indicator for any other artist not in that top 3.
This makes sense to me now, sorry it took me a while to see where you were coming from.

kfaraday wrote:
the problem of people not exploring the new tracks might be easier solved (even potentially without adding stats on the homepage) by i think a number of ways making it easier to listen to tracks without so much of a start-up investment... a "newb radio" (rather similar to the one you have already, only sorted by recency) would go a long way, accessible by either a "(Radio)" link that pops up next to the "Audio" above the New Feed or by clicking on the headphones. another one would be would be to have "Listen" links on the front page, accessible in a similarly discreet fashion (clicking the avatar of the user, or in a "Play" button that materialises on highlight, either on the right or in place of the avatar. or play in place of avatar, heart/download on the right if so desired) providing a quick way to listen to lots of music really fast without having to "specialise" which song you're on
While reading this I thought to cm.o and their system. If you see their play button system on their music page you can see that people just don't comment on tracks, they just listen and go onto the next one.

So what about I completely adapt the music section to include a radio fixed to the top with the ability to comment, favourite and download tracks?
It will play the most recent tracks by default, but you can also make it shuffle.

In short, just merge the radio with the music page.
Stats would also appear on tracks in the music section, which I think is only fair now I can see what importance they have to the user who actually wants to search through the vast collection of music µCollective is acquiring.

kfaraday wrote:
i think the main issue i see is that you click on a link to listen to a song and then there's no obvious links to listen to any more, you have to either back out onto the home page (by clicking the logo up top) or click "audio" which is perhaps just as esoteric and still leaves you a click away from other music; to this end i'd recommend a "next song"/"previous song" option somewhere based on chronological upload on each song page (you could use the footer perhaps...?), each previous and next option with the name of artist/song and a small avatar to continually entice the user into listening.
I will leave the single submission pages alone and free of next/previous song links as I'm sure the adapted radio will serve that purpose just as well.

kfaraday wrote:
i think each thing here would keep the same exploratory and addictive aspect of the radio (which is a good idea!) while also making it slightly more consistent timewise, and also consistent to the rest of the site
I agree in some aspects :) Does my compromise seem like a good idea?
Chiptune Justice League™ (ง'̀-'́)ง
Tuesday 29th of January 2013, 13:33 - 13
i think there should be some code that stops artists from having top spot for more than 1 week

edit: perhaps the top songs could be based of how many likes the songs uploaded in THAT WEEK receive as opposed to songs all time uploaded songs
Edited: 29/01/13 - 13:35
me an shania twain wil fuk u up
Tuesday 29th of January 2013, 14:45 - 14
the songs that are top on the charts have less plays than favorites
Edited: 29/01/13 - 14:46
Tuesday 29th of January 2013, 15:49 - 15
nuclace wrote:
the songs that are top on the charts have less plays than favorites


I think that's because you have to listen all the way through a song for the play to count. If you listen to 3/4 and stop, there is no play count for that from what I understand.
Gameboys in a blender
Wednesday 30th of January 2013, 15:17 - 16
JeMappelle wrote:
i think there should be some code that stops artists from having top spot for more than 1 week

edit: perhaps the top songs could be based of how many likes the songs uploaded in THAT WEEK receive as opposed to songs all time uploaded songs
That sounds like a good idea actually, only select the songs uploaded in the past week instead of selecting the amount of favourites on songs in the past week.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE LIKE THIS IDEA?

gaarathedancingpanda wrote:
nuclace wrote:
the songs that are top on the charts have less plays than favorites


I think that's because you have to listen all the way through a song for the play to count. If you listen to 3/4 and stop, there is no play count for that from what I understand.
That's correct. In the past people just spammed the 'faux play' count by refreshing the page. With this player I can control when the song play is counted.
Chiptune Justice League™ (ง'̀-'́)ง
Wednesday 30th of January 2013, 18:08 - 17
You may also consider using daily stats instead.
http://twitter.com/chunter16 - http://soundcloud.com/chunter - [b]http://chunter.info[/b] - http://www.youtube.com/user/chunter203908 - http://chunter16.tumblr.com
Wednesday 30th of January 2013, 18:24 - 18
2xAA wrote:
So what about I completely adapt the music section to include a radio fixed to the top with the ability to comment, favourite and download tracks?
It will play the most recent tracks by default, but you can also make it shuffle.

In short, just merge the radio with the music page.
Stats would also appear on tracks in the music section, which I think is only fair now I can see what importance they have to the user who actually wants to search through the vast collection of music µCollective is acquiring.

yep, i can dig this idea~
Thursday 31st of January 2013, 16:16 - 19
2xAA wrote:
JeMappelle wrote:
i think there should be some code that stops artists from having top spot for more than 1 week

edit: perhaps the top songs could be based of how many likes the songs uploaded in THAT WEEK receive as opposed to songs all time uploaded songs
That sounds like a good idea actually, only select the songs uploaded in the past week instead of selecting the amount of favourites on songs in the past week.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE LIKE THIS IDEA?

Hmm. Interesting.
Gameboys in a blender
Friday 1st of February 2013, 12:43 - 20
How about testing many different periods of time with existing stats to see what difference each would make?
http://twitter.com/chunter16 - http://soundcloud.com/chunter - [b]http://chunter.info[/b] - http://www.youtube.com/user/chunter203908 - http://chunter16.tumblr.com
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